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	<title>Comments on: Dancing on fresh graves</title>
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	<link>http://www.djcoffman.com/tikibar/2008/10/16/dancing-on-fresh-graves/</link>
	<description>"An honest man will never have any other."</description>
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		<title>By: Webcomics Weekly News Roundup October 22, 2008 &#187; The Daily Cartoonist</title>
		<link>http://www.djcoffman.com/tikibar/2008/10/16/dancing-on-fresh-graves/comment-page-1/#comment-2510</link>
		<dc:creator>Webcomics Weekly News Roundup October 22, 2008 &#187; The Daily Cartoonist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 18:01:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.djcoffman.com/tikibar/?p=570#comment-2510</guid>
		<description>[...] DJ and PVP creator Scott Kurtz engaged in a short spat over DJ&#8217;s involvement with Platinum in the comments of DJ&#8217;s blog which prompted DJ to create and sell (briefly) a T-shirt and mousepad with a caricature of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] DJ and PVP creator Scott Kurtz engaged in a short spat over DJ&#8217;s involvement with Platinum in the comments of DJ&#8217;s blog which prompted DJ to create and sell (briefly) a T-shirt and mousepad with a caricature of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Blog@Newsarama &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Lightning Round</title>
		<link>http://www.djcoffman.com/tikibar/2008/10/16/dancing-on-fresh-graves/comment-page-1/#comment-2487</link>
		<dc:creator>Blog@Newsarama &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Lightning Round</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 19:19:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.djcoffman.com/tikibar/?p=570#comment-2487</guid>
		<description>[...] DJ Coffman and Scott Kurtz go at it on the Internet, and everyone [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] DJ Coffman and Scott Kurtz go at it on the Internet, and everyone [...]</p>
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		<title>By: D.J. Coffman - Sequential Artist, Thinker &#187; While Seasons Change, Scott Kurtz is still a douchebag.</title>
		<link>http://www.djcoffman.com/tikibar/2008/10/16/dancing-on-fresh-graves/comment-page-1/#comment-2414</link>
		<dc:creator>D.J. Coffman - Sequential Artist, Thinker &#187; While Seasons Change, Scott Kurtz is still a douchebag.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 15:21:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.djcoffman.com/tikibar/?p=570#comment-2414</guid>
		<description>[...] Scott Kurtz decided to come on my blog and post his bloated opinions regarding the Platinum Studios situation. I wasn&#8217;t going to mention this [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Scott Kurtz decided to come on my blog and post his bloated opinions regarding the Platinum Studios situation. I wasn&#8217;t going to mention this [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Embury</title>
		<link>http://www.djcoffman.com/tikibar/2008/10/16/dancing-on-fresh-graves/comment-page-1/#comment-2413</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Embury</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 14:39:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.djcoffman.com/tikibar/?p=570#comment-2413</guid>
		<description>You know, things got messed up and crashed and burned, pretty quickly.  I&#039;ve watched that happen to other clients I&#039;ve had over the last 10 years too.  It affected ALL of us that were doing work for them at the time. Hell, I was the one who stopped working on HBN first because I wasn&#039;t being paid, and DJ and I talked about the situation and he made some tough decisions of his own.  For a while it was fine, for a while things were being changed as needed.  hell, I made enough dough off of ONE overnight, tight deadline, coloring job, to buy a freaking Cintiq.  I don&#039;t have regrets for working for Platinum, or the work that was done while there.  I DO regret the way things were handled in the end when money became an issue.  There either wasn&#039;t enough proactive solutions being offered, or there were bad solutions being offered to problems.  That sort of thing happens, we all learned from it, and moved on.  DJ shouldn&#039;t feel guilt over offering other creators he knew the opportunity to make money.  Damn Kurtz, it&#039;s like you think we&#039;re all little kids and don&#039;t understand the WFH contracts WE signed either.  I&#039;ve been freelancing for 10 years, the last 3 exclusively coloring comics. I&#039;m pretty confident I&#039;m business savvy enough to make a living the rest of my life, and I don&#039;t blame PEOPLE for their mistakes because god knows I&#039;ve made and continue to make my own. If someone BLAMED DJ for the way things happened, I think they&#039;d be man enough to come out and tell him, and you don&#039;t see anyone doing that do you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, things got messed up and crashed and burned, pretty quickly.  I&#8217;ve watched that happen to other clients I&#8217;ve had over the last 10 years too.  It affected ALL of us that were doing work for them at the time. Hell, I was the one who stopped working on HBN first because I wasn&#8217;t being paid, and DJ and I talked about the situation and he made some tough decisions of his own.  For a while it was fine, for a while things were being changed as needed.  hell, I made enough dough off of ONE overnight, tight deadline, coloring job, to buy a freaking Cintiq.  I don&#8217;t have regrets for working for Platinum, or the work that was done while there.  I DO regret the way things were handled in the end when money became an issue.  There either wasn&#8217;t enough proactive solutions being offered, or there were bad solutions being offered to problems.  That sort of thing happens, we all learned from it, and moved on.  DJ shouldn&#8217;t feel guilt over offering other creators he knew the opportunity to make money.  Damn Kurtz, it&#8217;s like you think we&#8217;re all little kids and don&#8217;t understand the WFH contracts WE signed either.  I&#8217;ve been freelancing for 10 years, the last 3 exclusively coloring comics. I&#8217;m pretty confident I&#8217;m business savvy enough to make a living the rest of my life, and I don&#8217;t blame PEOPLE for their mistakes because god knows I&#8217;ve made and continue to make my own. If someone BLAMED DJ for the way things happened, I think they&#8217;d be man enough to come out and tell him, and you don&#8217;t see anyone doing that do you.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam</title>
		<link>http://www.djcoffman.com/tikibar/2008/10/16/dancing-on-fresh-graves/comment-page-1/#comment-2411</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 12:09:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.djcoffman.com/tikibar/?p=570#comment-2411</guid>
		<description>Gseke makes a really good point. While I don&#039;t always agree with D.J. and I never trusted Platinum, trying to paint D.J. like he was helping screw over creators is wrong. Long before Platinum, and long before Scott Kurtz got the bug for helping webcomic creators, D.J. was openly sharing advice and showing things that worked for him and it helped a lot of creators, strangers he didn&#039;t even know. And as far as I can tell, he just did it to do it because he loves talking about it and sharing the information. Again, I was skeptical of the Platinum plans, but the bottom line here is that Platinum won&#039;t exist soon, and D.J. will, and hopefully he&#039;ll keep sharing the things he knows as best as he can. 

Kurtz, you may not sense it yourself, but you come off like a be-all-know all for comics and that&#039;s ridiculous. Don&#039;t you have comics to draw? Why are you even here unless you wanted to start a fight with D.J.? You are ridiculous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gseke makes a really good point. While I don&#8217;t always agree with D.J. and I never trusted Platinum, trying to paint D.J. like he was helping screw over creators is wrong. Long before Platinum, and long before Scott Kurtz got the bug for helping webcomic creators, D.J. was openly sharing advice and showing things that worked for him and it helped a lot of creators, strangers he didn&#8217;t even know. And as far as I can tell, he just did it to do it because he loves talking about it and sharing the information. Again, I was skeptical of the Platinum plans, but the bottom line here is that Platinum won&#8217;t exist soon, and D.J. will, and hopefully he&#8217;ll keep sharing the things he knows as best as he can. </p>
<p>Kurtz, you may not sense it yourself, but you come off like a be-all-know all for comics and that&#8217;s ridiculous. Don&#8217;t you have comics to draw? Why are you even here unless you wanted to start a fight with D.J.? You are ridiculous.</p>
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		<title>By: gsekse</title>
		<link>http://www.djcoffman.com/tikibar/2008/10/16/dancing-on-fresh-graves/comment-page-1/#comment-2410</link>
		<dc:creator>gsekse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 10:31:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.djcoffman.com/tikibar/?p=570#comment-2410</guid>
		<description>Is it just me or does Scott&#039;s constant rehashing of certain points remind you of the conversations between Cartman and most kids on South Park?

I feel for Scott really, because his paranoia with &quot;business&quot; will also keep him from trying anything. Unless he is the head cheese of EVERYTHING related to his business deal, he &quot;suspect&quot; treachery. While he can be very successful with this approach to business, in real life, the most successful realize that they must trust and deal with others. Sometimes this will get you burned, sometimes it creates a highly profitable relationship.

DJ&#039;s additude towards work and working with others is &quot;blunt&quot; but it is honest and when he creates that relationship that does work, it will be much more productive than if he does it all alone.

Again, I say that Platinum may own rights &quot;now&quot;, but as with all things, this whole conversation might be very different in a year.

As a landlord, I rent a house and sometimes the tenant and I have a very profitable relationship. Sometimes they tear up my house and force me to evict them, costing me hundreds of dollars. Do I complain about it? No, I MOVE ON, I fix the damage and start again.

DJ has moved on and will continue that. (though I still hope that the rights come back to him and HBN can be finished some day) Meanwhile, will Scott be bringing up 2006 stuff in 5 years from now??

I think DJ&#039;s &quot;How to start a webcomic&quot; is probably more useful advice than anything Scott has brought up in his lectures on IP rights. 

Don&#039;t hate me Scott, just an opinion from a reader, not a creator of IP material. ie: the guy that actual clicks the tip jar now and then. You know, the people that an IP creator actually has to get to be successful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it just me or does Scott&#8217;s constant rehashing of certain points remind you of the conversations between Cartman and most kids on South Park?</p>
<p>I feel for Scott really, because his paranoia with &#8220;business&#8221; will also keep him from trying anything. Unless he is the head cheese of EVERYTHING related to his business deal, he &#8220;suspect&#8221; treachery. While he can be very successful with this approach to business, in real life, the most successful realize that they must trust and deal with others. Sometimes this will get you burned, sometimes it creates a highly profitable relationship.</p>
<p>DJ&#8217;s additude towards work and working with others is &#8220;blunt&#8221; but it is honest and when he creates that relationship that does work, it will be much more productive than if he does it all alone.</p>
<p>Again, I say that Platinum may own rights &#8220;now&#8221;, but as with all things, this whole conversation might be very different in a year.</p>
<p>As a landlord, I rent a house and sometimes the tenant and I have a very profitable relationship. Sometimes they tear up my house and force me to evict them, costing me hundreds of dollars. Do I complain about it? No, I MOVE ON, I fix the damage and start again.</p>
<p>DJ has moved on and will continue that. (though I still hope that the rights come back to him and HBN can be finished some day) Meanwhile, will Scott be bringing up 2006 stuff in 5 years from now??</p>
<p>I think DJ&#8217;s &#8220;How to start a webcomic&#8221; is probably more useful advice than anything Scott has brought up in his lectures on IP rights. </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t hate me Scott, just an opinion from a reader, not a creator of IP material. ie: the guy that actual clicks the tip jar now and then. You know, the people that an IP creator actually has to get to be successful.</p>
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		<title>By: DJ Coffman</title>
		<link>http://www.djcoffman.com/tikibar/2008/10/16/dancing-on-fresh-graves/comment-page-1/#comment-2409</link>
		<dc:creator>DJ Coffman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 06:24:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.djcoffman.com/tikibar/?p=570#comment-2409</guid>
		<description>Scott, you say you&#039;re &quot;sure&quot; about a lot of things that you&#039;re wrong about. When I had that conversation with you it was the day I was pitching HBN! I had figured those things I said then, and was cool with that. After i won and actually began working internally, things did change. I got to know many people and they weren&#039;t evil bad guys, if anything just poorly mismanaged at times, and I dug and dug, and asked questions about everythig all the time. Things aren&#039;t as black and white as you&#039;d like to paint them, so please don&#039;t.

 the Drunk DUck thing came along right after CBC and left a lot of us scratching our heads. I didn&#039;t want to put HBN on Drunk Duck initially, but we did because there was at one point a VERY SOLID plan put together by the New Media-- And Platinum wasn&#039;t use to working with creators like me who did everything--When I first started working on my own comic for Platinum and came in and took charge, it was a breathe of fresh air to a lot of people behind the scenes. 

Scott, there was  no pitt of snakes I was coaxing anyone into, in fact I saw an awesome opportunity for OTHER creators after I did trust Scott Rosenberg and Brian Altounian. And internally, I actually fought for them to rethink the rights issues you and others were so adamant about, and in doing so, I was able to actually negotiate, no, I was able to write MY OWN seperate contract for the webcomic I ran and other things. You are dead, dead wrong about me being paid handsomely and not having problems inside, but I did keep them inside for obvious reasons (NDA), but ask a good bit of ANYONE inside Platinum current or previous employees how much complaining I did about their website and marketing, or really dumb things that would pop up-- or handling of Diamond, or when editors would mess something up... heads rolled regularly. When I&#039;d make a suggestion or critique, Rosenberg actually listened to me and pretty much let me handle everything my way behind the scenes. As things grew rapidly worse after they went public, I think he just kinda wanted to curl up under his desk and take the ringer off the hook and not face problems head on. And I don&#039;t work that way.

Was I fooled? No... I believed the plans I saw, but in the end the people managing those things just didnt have the know-how to get things done. The only people I really brought in was when I was asked... &quot;Hey, do you know anyone who can draw KISS?&quot; So I referred my friend Adam Black. -- I brought in my friend Jason to help me color. And all of them made good money for a time. Actually, I brought in Brandon Carr too, 

and I wrote a new Micro-Branding strategy that allowed Platinum to cherry pick from it&#039;s library to have things that were just one-sheet ideas developed into webcomics, wherein a cartoonist like Brandon Carr could get a page rate, pageviewbonus AND a cut in ownership in the property they were &quot;running&quot;, and to boot, 100% of the profits from any merchandising the creator did on his own. I actually demonstrated how this was possible when I had my own HBN rings made and sold them direct to the readers. To Platinum, it would be too much time and energy, they make their paydays on the bigger thigns. Scott Rosenberg really liked the idea, but it got shot down in February or early March for apparent reasons by their board. (there was starting to be NO money...)

Anyways Scott, there is a lot you do not know, and maybe you would if you read my blog here all the time which I don&#039;t expect you to do. I do feel bad for the friends I brought in. And you find me ONE single creator who went to Drunk Duck because I told them to host there, or ONE single creator who pitched something to Platinums CBC who&#039;s upset with me and I&#039;ll deeply apologize to them, but I won&#039;t apologize to the likes of you. You will find none. Even though my friends aren&#039;t upset with me, I feel bad for ever getting them involved in hindsight, and I learned a valuable lesson, as I&#039;ve written about thoroughly on my blog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott, you say you&#8217;re &#8220;sure&#8221; about a lot of things that you&#8217;re wrong about. When I had that conversation with you it was the day I was pitching HBN! I had figured those things I said then, and was cool with that. After i won and actually began working internally, things did change. I got to know many people and they weren&#8217;t evil bad guys, if anything just poorly mismanaged at times, and I dug and dug, and asked questions about everythig all the time. Things aren&#8217;t as black and white as you&#8217;d like to paint them, so please don&#8217;t.</p>
<p> the Drunk DUck thing came along right after CBC and left a lot of us scratching our heads. I didn&#8217;t want to put HBN on Drunk Duck initially, but we did because there was at one point a VERY SOLID plan put together by the New Media&#8211; And Platinum wasn&#8217;t use to working with creators like me who did everything&#8211;When I first started working on my own comic for Platinum and came in and took charge, it was a breathe of fresh air to a lot of people behind the scenes. </p>
<p>Scott, there was  no pitt of snakes I was coaxing anyone into, in fact I saw an awesome opportunity for OTHER creators after I did trust Scott Rosenberg and Brian Altounian. And internally, I actually fought for them to rethink the rights issues you and others were so adamant about, and in doing so, I was able to actually negotiate, no, I was able to write MY OWN seperate contract for the webcomic I ran and other things. You are dead, dead wrong about me being paid handsomely and not having problems inside, but I did keep them inside for obvious reasons (NDA), but ask a good bit of ANYONE inside Platinum current or previous employees how much complaining I did about their website and marketing, or really dumb things that would pop up&#8211; or handling of Diamond, or when editors would mess something up&#8230; heads rolled regularly. When I&#8217;d make a suggestion or critique, Rosenberg actually listened to me and pretty much let me handle everything my way behind the scenes. As things grew rapidly worse after they went public, I think he just kinda wanted to curl up under his desk and take the ringer off the hook and not face problems head on. And I don&#8217;t work that way.</p>
<p>Was I fooled? No&#8230; I believed the plans I saw, but in the end the people managing those things just didnt have the know-how to get things done. The only people I really brought in was when I was asked&#8230; &#8220;Hey, do you know anyone who can draw KISS?&#8221; So I referred my friend Adam Black. &#8212; I brought in my friend Jason to help me color. And all of them made good money for a time. Actually, I brought in Brandon Carr too, </p>
<p>and I wrote a new Micro-Branding strategy that allowed Platinum to cherry pick from it&#8217;s library to have things that were just one-sheet ideas developed into webcomics, wherein a cartoonist like Brandon Carr could get a page rate, pageviewbonus AND a cut in ownership in the property they were &#8220;running&#8221;, and to boot, 100% of the profits from any merchandising the creator did on his own. I actually demonstrated how this was possible when I had my own HBN rings made and sold them direct to the readers. To Platinum, it would be too much time and energy, they make their paydays on the bigger thigns. Scott Rosenberg really liked the idea, but it got shot down in February or early March for apparent reasons by their board. (there was starting to be NO money&#8230;)</p>
<p>Anyways Scott, there is a lot you do not know, and maybe you would if you read my blog here all the time which I don&#8217;t expect you to do. I do feel bad for the friends I brought in. And you find me ONE single creator who went to Drunk Duck because I told them to host there, or ONE single creator who pitched something to Platinums CBC who&#8217;s upset with me and I&#8217;ll deeply apologize to them, but I won&#8217;t apologize to the likes of you. You will find none. Even though my friends aren&#8217;t upset with me, I feel bad for ever getting them involved in hindsight, and I learned a valuable lesson, as I&#8217;ve written about thoroughly on my blog.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Kurtz</title>
		<link>http://www.djcoffman.com/tikibar/2008/10/16/dancing-on-fresh-graves/comment-page-1/#comment-2408</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Kurtz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 05:53:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.djcoffman.com/tikibar/?p=570#comment-2408</guid>
		<description>Shawn and Tim and Calypso,

I can appreciate that you are fans and/or friends of DJ and you want to defend him here on his website. I can respect that. But believe me when I say that I&#039;m well informed in my opinion.

The bottom line here is that DJ has known from the beginning what Platinum was all about. I know this because he informed me as much at my booth in San Diego the year he pitched HBN for the first Comic Book Challenge. He told me flat out that he knew that Platinum was only interested in being an IP farm, but that he was going ahead with it anyway because it was just a throw-away idea and worst-case he gets paid to make comics for a year.

That&#039;s a very different assessment of Platinum from the one that he evangelized on their behalf during the year or so that he was being paid handsomely by them. DJ knew the score with Platinum before and after he was being paid by them. It was only DURING his payment that he forgot their true nature and championed them as strong lovers of comic books with the best of intentions who took care of their people.

It&#039;s one thing to take your own chances and lie with snakes. You&#039;re only risking your own skin and your own properties. It&#039;s another entirely to coax other people into a pit of snakes because it benefits you at the time.

I&#039;m sure that if Platinum had simply managed to keep paying DJ and his crew to continue producing HBN, he would have absolutely NO problems keeping silent on any internal wrongdoings, no matter how many emails he was getting from other disgruntled platinum contractors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shawn and Tim and Calypso,</p>
<p>I can appreciate that you are fans and/or friends of DJ and you want to defend him here on his website. I can respect that. But believe me when I say that I&#8217;m well informed in my opinion.</p>
<p>The bottom line here is that DJ has known from the beginning what Platinum was all about. I know this because he informed me as much at my booth in San Diego the year he pitched HBN for the first Comic Book Challenge. He told me flat out that he knew that Platinum was only interested in being an IP farm, but that he was going ahead with it anyway because it was just a throw-away idea and worst-case he gets paid to make comics for a year.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s a very different assessment of Platinum from the one that he evangelized on their behalf during the year or so that he was being paid handsomely by them. DJ knew the score with Platinum before and after he was being paid by them. It was only DURING his payment that he forgot their true nature and championed them as strong lovers of comic books with the best of intentions who took care of their people.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s one thing to take your own chances and lie with snakes. You&#8217;re only risking your own skin and your own properties. It&#8217;s another entirely to coax other people into a pit of snakes because it benefits you at the time.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure that if Platinum had simply managed to keep paying DJ and his crew to continue producing HBN, he would have absolutely NO problems keeping silent on any internal wrongdoings, no matter how many emails he was getting from other disgruntled platinum contractors.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Galant</title>
		<link>http://www.djcoffman.com/tikibar/2008/10/16/dancing-on-fresh-graves/comment-page-1/#comment-2407</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Galant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 01:34:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.djcoffman.com/tikibar/?p=570#comment-2407</guid>
		<description>Scott is just a tired old troll/one trick pony. He is sad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott is just a tired old troll/one trick pony. He is sad.</p>
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		<title>By: Shawn</title>
		<link>http://www.djcoffman.com/tikibar/2008/10/16/dancing-on-fresh-graves/comment-page-1/#comment-2406</link>
		<dc:creator>Shawn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 01:10:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.djcoffman.com/tikibar/?p=570#comment-2406</guid>
		<description>Hey Kurtz, you should read before you post.  DJ has said in this post and in others that he was their biggest cheerleader and how bad it makes him feel NOW that other people were brought into Platinum by DJ&#039;s love for them. 

In other words, to make it easy for your to understand, DJ HAS acknowledged his culpability in all of this and now uses this blog and his posts to make whatever amends he can. 

Do you read these posts Scott or just troll and post?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Kurtz, you should read before you post.  DJ has said in this post and in others that he was their biggest cheerleader and how bad it makes him feel NOW that other people were brought into Platinum by DJ&#8217;s love for them. </p>
<p>In other words, to make it easy for your to understand, DJ HAS acknowledged his culpability in all of this and now uses this blog and his posts to make whatever amends he can. </p>
<p>Do you read these posts Scott or just troll and post?</p>
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